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	<title>Comments on: Stop the &#8216;Amazon Tax!&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html</link>
	<description>Bloggage and Original News Coverage From Colorado and Around the Country</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Maj</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12027</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Maj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TL; DR my own post: no physical presence == no state tax</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TL; DR my own post: no physical presence == no state tax</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Maj</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12026</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Maj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh, in referencing back towards the end of Ari&#039;s OP, and according to the PDF copy of the bill http://bit.ly/a8sDk1 under 39-26-102 II (page 2), I think the key words to look for are &quot;physical presence.&quot;

The TL;DR of Ari&#039;s post is that without local affiliates, then Amazon has no physical presence in the State of Colorado.

Now, why is physical presence important?

Well, the power of inter-state trade regulation is one of the few enumerated powers that the People and the States delegated away to the Federal government as created under the Constitution.

Please consider that was a time of recent onerous intervention in colonial commerce by a guy with a silly crown on his head sitting on a throne in far off lands.  So it&#039;s not too hard to understand that the phrase &quot;to regulate commerce ... among the several States&quot; was in the plain language of the time meant to make commerce &quot;regular&quot; among the States -- what we today might call a sort of &quot;free-trade&quot; zone.

Although, of course, if the People of one State want to hurt intra-State commerce by shaking everybody down for a tax, it is still within their power to do so &lt;i&gt;within their own State.&lt;/i&gt;  But a bunch of guys in stuffy suits calling themselves a government, for example, in Colorado, couldn&#039;t fleece a business in, for example, Washington, even if some of the company&#039;s customers were here in Colorado.  Although, as soon as the Washington company set up shop in Colorado by way of an affiliate program of local residents, then Colorado can tax the bejesus out of the local affiliates, if they like and if it is in accordance with the provisions of their own State Constitution (including stuff like TABOR.)

Here&#039;s the trouble I see when this reasoning is explained to statists: long ago, the meaning of the word &quot;regulate&quot; was butchered, and so they immediately think a national retail sales tax would be a great idea &lt;b&gt;because it&#039;s the Constitutional way to do things!&lt;/b&gt;

Linguistic history aside, I must go back and address your attempt at dismissing my earlier arguments against the use of force.  And if you don&#039;t think taxation is force, then why not try shredding your property tax notices for a few years and see where that gets you?  (Or maybe your mortgage company collects the tax for you as part of your monthly payments to them -- how subtly convenient.)

Specifically, as for your suggestion that education is not something that can be provided by the free market -- whether for profit or charity, as voluntary free markets allow both -- here&#039;s a list of those who might currently disagree with monopoly government schools: math tutors, piano teachers, driving instructors, master gardeners, corporate trainers, charter school administrators, private college professors, home school family members, and maybe even former public school students who chose to vote with their feet and pursue careers in self-taught fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, in referencing back towards the end of Ari&#8217;s OP, and according to the PDF copy of the bill <a href="http://bit.ly/a8sDk1" onclick="return TrackClick('http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2Fa8sDk1','http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2Fa8sDk1')" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/a8sDk1</a> under 39-26-102 II (page 2), I think the key words to look for are &#8220;physical presence.&#8221;</p>
<p>The TL;DR of Ari&#8217;s post is that without local affiliates, then Amazon has no physical presence in the State of Colorado.</p>
<p>Now, why is physical presence important?</p>
<p>Well, the power of inter-state trade regulation is one of the few enumerated powers that the People and the States delegated away to the Federal government as created under the Constitution.</p>
<p>Please consider that was a time of recent onerous intervention in colonial commerce by a guy with a silly crown on his head sitting on a throne in far off lands.  So it&#8217;s not too hard to understand that the phrase &#8220;to regulate commerce &#8230; among the several States&#8221; was in the plain language of the time meant to make commerce &#8220;regular&#8221; among the States &#8212; what we today might call a sort of &#8220;free-trade&#8221; zone.</p>
<p>Although, of course, if the People of one State want to hurt intra-State commerce by shaking everybody down for a tax, it is still within their power to do so <i>within their own State.</i>  But a bunch of guys in stuffy suits calling themselves a government, for example, in Colorado, couldn&#8217;t fleece a business in, for example, Washington, even if some of the company&#8217;s customers were here in Colorado.  Although, as soon as the Washington company set up shop in Colorado by way of an affiliate program of local residents, then Colorado can tax the bejesus out of the local affiliates, if they like and if it is in accordance with the provisions of their own State Constitution (including stuff like TABOR.)</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the trouble I see when this reasoning is explained to statists: long ago, the meaning of the word &#8220;regulate&#8221; was butchered, and so they immediately think a national retail sales tax would be a great idea <b>because it&#8217;s the Constitutional way to do things!</b></p>
<p>Linguistic history aside, I must go back and address your attempt at dismissing my earlier arguments against the use of force.  And if you don&#8217;t think taxation is force, then why not try shredding your property tax notices for a few years and see where that gets you?  (Or maybe your mortgage company collects the tax for you as part of your monthly payments to them &#8212; how subtly convenient.)</p>
<p>Specifically, as for your suggestion that education is not something that can be provided by the free market &#8212; whether for profit or charity, as voluntary free markets allow both &#8212; here&#8217;s a list of those who might currently disagree with monopoly government schools: math tutors, piano teachers, driving instructors, master gardeners, corporate trainers, charter school administrators, private college professors, home school family members, and maybe even former public school students who chose to vote with their feet and pursue careers in self-taught fields.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12016</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chris, Donald would not have the right to take a cut unless he was using his cut to provide services for both you and me that the free market would not otherwise find profitable. Examples are education, an easy and convenient system of roads and highways, etc. 

You are making an argument against taxes, which is fine. You and I obviously have a different perspective of the role of government. But you provide no business reason for Amazon&#039;s decision to fire its affiliates. By that I mean, how is it saving Amazon money? They will lose the sales generated through those affiliates and will still be subject to the new law. 

With no rational justification, we can only assume that there was some sort of irrational reason for their action. An irrational decision that is costing our fellow Colorado citizens their livelihood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, Donald would not have the right to take a cut unless he was using his cut to provide services for both you and me that the free market would not otherwise find profitable. Examples are education, an easy and convenient system of roads and highways, etc. </p>
<p>You are making an argument against taxes, which is fine. You and I obviously have a different perspective of the role of government. But you provide no business reason for Amazon&#8217;s decision to fire its affiliates. By that I mean, how is it saving Amazon money? They will lose the sales generated through those affiliates and will still be subject to the new law. </p>
<p>With no rational justification, we can only assume that there was some sort of irrational reason for their action. An irrational decision that is costing our fellow Colorado citizens their livelihood.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Maj</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12012</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Maj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh, if you and I want to exchange some wampum for widgets, then what business does Donald have taking a cut?  None?  But if Donald starts calling himself Sheriff and flashes his badge and his gun during our meeting, does that somehow then make it okay?  Or, what if Donald claims authority to levy such a &quot;tax&quot; because the PPC took a vote on the matter and decided 2.9% was &quot;fair&quot;?  Is it morally acceptable then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, if you and I want to exchange some wampum for widgets, then what business does Donald have taking a cut?  None?  But if Donald starts calling himself Sheriff and flashes his badge and his gun during our meeting, does that somehow then make it okay?  Or, what if Donald claims authority to levy such a &#8220;tax&#8221; because the PPC took a vote on the matter and decided 2.9% was &#8220;fair&#8221;?  Is it morally acceptable then?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12006</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Donald, you may have an argument in terms of the constitutionality of the bill, but your statement speaks nothing the fact that Amazon had no valid business reason to fire it&#039;s affiliates. If they had kept the affiliates they could still challenge the constitutionality of the bill. The impact of the bill on Amazon is the same either way. Firing the affiliates was retaliatory, spiteful, and an attempt to threaten California.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald, you may have an argument in terms of the constitutionality of the bill, but your statement speaks nothing the fact that Amazon had no valid business reason to fire it&#8217;s affiliates. If they had kept the affiliates they could still challenge the constitutionality of the bill. The impact of the bill on Amazon is the same either way. Firing the affiliates was retaliatory, spiteful, and an attempt to threaten California.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-11958</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh,
The definition of a presence in Colorado as outlined in HB 1193 clearly is unconstitutional and will be struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The hard left Dems running Colorado are trying to establish new legal precedents at the expense of Colorado consumers and small businesses. It&#039;s clear that they will fail in two respects. First, Colorado consumers will throw them out of office. And second, their bill will be declared unconstitutional.

Meanwhile, the big government, tax and spend values of the Democratic Party in Colorado are on full display and will be held against them.

This will be a PR victory for Amazon, which is defending the rights of all businesses to engage in interstate commerce in the face of unconstitutional protectionist legislation by the states. Colorado is a significant technology and e-commerce state, and the Democrats are trying to drive technology and e-commerce businesses out of the state. Democrats, as usual, are killing jobs and raising the cost of living for everyone but those in the ruling political class. 

It&#039;s ironic that the hard left is pushing terribly regressive sales taxes so hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,<br />
The definition of a presence in Colorado as outlined in HB 1193 clearly is unconstitutional and will be struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.</p>
<p>The hard left Dems running Colorado are trying to establish new legal precedents at the expense of Colorado consumers and small businesses. It&#8217;s clear that they will fail in two respects. First, Colorado consumers will throw them out of office. And second, their bill will be declared unconstitutional.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the big government, tax and spend values of the Democratic Party in Colorado are on full display and will be held against them.</p>
<p>This will be a PR victory for Amazon, which is defending the rights of all businesses to engage in interstate commerce in the face of unconstitutional protectionist legislation by the states. Colorado is a significant technology and e-commerce state, and the Democrats are trying to drive technology and e-commerce businesses out of the state. Democrats, as usual, are killing jobs and raising the cost of living for everyone but those in the ruling political class. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s ironic that the hard left is pushing terribly regressive sales taxes so hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/03/stop-amazon-tax.html/comment-page-1/#comment-11945</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;But the only way Colorado can try to tax an out-of-state company (such as Amazon) is if that company has a business presence in Colorado. As a consequence, Amazon cut off its Associates program for Colorado residents who advertise for Amazon online.&quot;

You are completely wrong! Cutting of the Associates program in Colorado does nothing to reduce the impact of this bill on Amazon. You fail to mention an important part of the bill, the very first section: 

&quot;Doing business in this state&quot; means the selling, leasing, or
delivering in this state, or any activity in this state in connection with the
selling, leasing, or delivering in this state, of tangible personal property by
a retail sale as defined in this section, for use, storage, distribution, or
consumption within this state. This term includes, but shall not be limited
to, the following acts or methods of transacting business:

(b) (I) The soliciting, either by direct representatives, indirect
representatives, manufacturers&#039; agents, or by distribution of catalogues or
other advertising, or by use of any communication media, or by use of the
newspaper, radio, or television advertising media, or by any other means
whatsoever, of business from persons residing in this state and by reason
thereof receiving orders from, or selling or leasing tangible personal
property to, such persons residing in this state for use, consumption,
distribution, and storage for use or consumption in this state.&quot;

No where does it say an affiliate is the only way the state can require Amazon, or other online retailers, to disclose to their customers the sales and use taxes owed. 

Amazon clearly made this decision in an attempt to scare California out of passing a similar law currently under consideration. The fact that you are willing to side with an out-of-state corporation that is bullying small Colorado businesses in a political chess match with California is disturbing. If we give in to Amazon&#039;s demands, what will stop every other major corporation in the state from also blackmailing us. 

A magazine once had a picture of a puppy with a gun to its head. The headline read, &quot;Buy this magazine or we&#039;ll shoot the puppy!&quot; Well Colorado didn&#039;t buy the magazine and Amazon shot the puppy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the only way Colorado can try to tax an out-of-state company (such as Amazon) is if that company has a business presence in Colorado. As a consequence, Amazon cut off its Associates program for Colorado residents who advertise for Amazon online.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are completely wrong! Cutting of the Associates program in Colorado does nothing to reduce the impact of this bill on Amazon. You fail to mention an important part of the bill, the very first section: </p>
<p>&#8220;Doing business in this state&#8221; means the selling, leasing, or<br />
delivering in this state, or any activity in this state in connection with the<br />
selling, leasing, or delivering in this state, of tangible personal property by<br />
a retail sale as defined in this section, for use, storage, distribution, or<br />
consumption within this state. This term includes, but shall not be limited<br />
to, the following acts or methods of transacting business:</p>
<p>(b) (I) The soliciting, either by direct representatives, indirect<br />
representatives, manufacturers&#8217; agents, or by distribution of catalogues or<br />
other advertising, or by use of any communication media, or by use of the<br />
newspaper, radio, or television advertising media, or by any other means<br />
whatsoever, of business from persons residing in this state and by reason<br />
thereof receiving orders from, or selling or leasing tangible personal<br />
property to, such persons residing in this state for use, consumption,<br />
distribution, and storage for use or consumption in this state.&#8221;</p>
<p>No where does it say an affiliate is the only way the state can require Amazon, or other online retailers, to disclose to their customers the sales and use taxes owed. </p>
<p>Amazon clearly made this decision in an attempt to scare California out of passing a similar law currently under consideration. The fact that you are willing to side with an out-of-state corporation that is bullying small Colorado businesses in a political chess match with California is disturbing. If we give in to Amazon&#8217;s demands, what will stop every other major corporation in the state from also blackmailing us. </p>
<p>A magazine once had a picture of a puppy with a gun to its head. The headline read, &#8220;Buy this magazine or we&#8217;ll shoot the puppy!&#8221; Well Colorado didn&#8217;t buy the magazine and Amazon shot the puppy.</p>
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