Liveblogging the Oxford Debate

by T.L. James | 6:44 pm, September 26, 2008 | 1 Comment

Liveblogging will commence momentarily. Watching on the Fox News live stream.

1856: Lehrer giving instructions to the audience. “Throw away your cellphones!” “Be nice!” “Talk amongst yourselves until I say ‘Hush!’”

1900: Stage loooks like a red frowny-face when viewed from the camera in the nosebleed seats.

1902: Topics are foreign policy and national security, which of course includes the financial crisis. Huh? And no sound from the audience at all…well, except from the inevitable Code Pink disruption…

1903: “Where do you stand on the financial recovery plan?” Obama first. O blabbing his thanks and diversionary intro stuff. Worst financial crisis since Great Depression. Protect taxpayers: need oversight on $700B, make sure taxpayers putting money at risk will get it back plus gains if any, make sure none of tha tmoney pads CEO salaries, make sure no one gets foreclosed (?).

Bush’s fault, and McCain’s fault, class warfare, measure economy by whether middle class gets fair shake!

1906: McCain — sympathy for Kennedy. Bipartisanship in approach to financial crisis. We understand magnitude. Failures on main street not just Wall Street. Bipartisanship. Transparency, acccountability, oversight, optins for loans not just takeovers. Addressing his return to DC this week. House Republicans decided they would be part of solution to this problem.

This isn’t the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning of this crisis (groan). Got a lot of work to do. Lame ending on dependence on foreign oil.

1909: Obama — gotta fix the blame first, haven’t seen the plan yet. Blame blame blame!  I’m the messiah so of course I saw the future years ago (but did nothing to prevent it). Need more regulations! Deregulation is bad!

McCain — I warned about these problems, this train wreck too. Responsibility. Talking about Ike’s two letters before D-Day, “somehow we’ve lost that accountability”. Greed is rewarded, excess is rewarded, corruption is rewarded. People are going to be held accountable in my administration.

Obama — We’ve had years of Wall Street over Main Street. People are struggling! Need to look at proles getting paid less, no health care, no energy policy! Need to fix the blame! Lehrer redirects Obama to talk to McCain. Obama stammers. Back on point. More populism. The proles are struggling!! What about the masses! You said John that economics strong!

McCain — fundamental problems in system. Main Street paying price for greed and corruption in DC and Wall Street. Regulatory agencies not doing their jobs brought this about. Fundamental belief in our people and possibilities.

1914: McCain — gotta get DC spending under control, Washington changed GOP since 1994 not other way around. Earmarking is “gateway drug”. It’s got to be brought under control. I’ve got a pen and I’m going to veto every single spending bill that comes across my desk. Citing Obama’s $932M in earmark spending and short time in Senate.

Obama – uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… He’s right it’s been abused, I stopped doing it until we cleaned it up! Lobbyists and special interests often introduce these requests (oops but I’m not talking about mine!!!!). Tax cuts for rich corporations and people bad! Tax cuts bad! Only CEOS of F500 companies getting helped, everyone else doesn’t get tax cut in McCain’s plan! My plan will cut taxes for 95% of working families (even those that don’t pay taxes?). McCain is Bush! McCain is Bush!

1919: back and forth about tax cuts and spending increases. McCain points out that Obama’s plan has more spending than cuts.

Obama – eliminating earmarks aren’t going to get middle class back on track. We can’t afford another four years of Bush! McCain is Bush!

McCain – business taxes are too high here, they’re a lot lower elsewhere, no surprise that businesses will relocate there. Cut taxes so business stays here. It’s not just earmarks,  it’s even worse than that. Obama is a “recent convert” to opposing pork. I want people to have tax cuts, refundable tax credits for purchasing healthcare, double child tax credit. Senator Obama has a funny definition of rich.

Obama – uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…95% of you will get a tax cut. Business taxes on paper are high, but they have loopholes and pay among lowest rates in world, thanks to McCain’s loopholes. uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…Health credituhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… McCain wants to tax health benefits you get from employer. Not a good deal for American people, silly notion that market can fix everything!

McCain — energy bill was festooned with Christmas tree ornaments, I voted against it, Obama voted for it. Simplify taxes, simple brackets, let people opt for which code they want. Obama has shifted. Obama has voted to raise taxes.

Obama — oil companies get tax breaks under your plan John. Oil! Oillllll!!! If we give tax breaks to oil, it means other people won’t be getting them [zero sum economics, nice!]. You opposed my reforms because they would strip away oil companies’ tax breaks! Oillllll!

1926: What will you give up (priorities) to pay for financial plan?

Obama — we have to give up something, who knows what, I have a plan, blah blah blah. Need energy independence. Need jobs here not Korea or Japan [hello 1988]. Need healthcare. Need to make sure we’re competing, improving education. Fix infrastructure. Broadband. Electricity grid. Need to spend spend spend on everything under the sun. Not answering the question. Wants everything.

McCain — we have GOT to cut spending, no matter what. Obama has most liberal voting record, hard to reach across the aisle from that far on the left. I oppose ethanol subsidies [yes!]. Defense appropriations: do away with cost-plus and get costs back under control. [McCain is on good ground here, given his record on new hardware programs, tanker etc.] Talking about Boeing tanker deal. Examine every agency of government, keep the ones that work, dump the ones that dont.

Lehrer — neither of you want to change anything!

Obama — uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… I’m saying we have to prioritize! We can’t do everything at once, but bits and pieces of everything at once! uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… Health care companies are evil! They’re making profits and that’s bad! Me being liberal is just me opposing Bush’s policies. McCain is Bush! McCain is Bush! I worked with Coburn on database to provide transparancy on the pork I’m spending!

1933: Obama — spending freeze John suggests is bad, we need scalpel not axe. We need to spend more! Iraq has surplus and we’re spending for their defense!

McCain — energy options, including offshore drilling and nuclear. Obama opposes storage and reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel. We can make jobs and dependence by building 40+ nuclear plants in next few years! [yes!!!]

1935: Lehrer — when you “rule the country” [?!?!?]

Obama — tax cuts for people who don’t need them and didn’t ask for them, need to prioritize our spending, blah blah blah, health care, blah blah blah

McCain — Obama’s healthcare plan would be government controlled. Need to adjust spending, focus on the needed programs. Healthy economy with low taxes and not raising anyone’s taxes is the best recipe for recovery. Reduced federal spending will be part of that. Owe China $500B [not more than that?].

Obama — “your president” who presided over this “orgy of spending”. You voted for almost all of his budgets. You’re gonna lead on controlling spending when you haven’t done that in past eight years.

McCain — “miss congeniality” joke again. I opposed Bush on a bunch of stuff. Long record of this. I’m independent and the Maverick of the Senate. Reference to Palin as a maverick

1939: Lessons of Iraq?

McCain — can’t have a failed strategy and not fix it. Victory was good, follow up was bad. I fought for change of strategy. We came up with great strategy and general to lead it. We will come home with victory and honor.

Obama – we have a fundamental difference. Blame for getting into war in the first place. I opposed the war several years ago when it was risky to do so. I knew better. We didn’t finish Afghanistan or stop Binladen and Al Qaeda. We took our eye off the ball [Stale Slogans We Can Believe In!]. The lesson to be drawn is we should never hesitate to use military force, but we have to use our military wisely and did not use it wisely in Iraq.

McCain — next president won’t decide to go into Iraq, but how we leave [focus on future, Barack, not past!]. Obama is disconnected from Iraq, didn’t go there for 900days, sits on relevant committee but never held hearings!

Obama — uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…Those things don’t come through my committee, and besides, I have Biden on my ticket for foreign policy gravitas, John! uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… Surge was a fix for a failed policy! It doesn’t count! You were wrong. You were wrong! You were wrong! Your judgement sucks! I’m better equipped to make decisions on how to use our military!

McCain — Obama doesn’t understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy. Tells story about reenlistment while he was in Iraq visiting. Told “Let us win!” Obama refuses to acknowledge we’re winning. Social and economic progress. It wasn’t a tactic, it was a strategy. Petraeus will now do same thing in Afghanistan. Obama voted to cut off funding to troops.

Obama — uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… McCain didn’t believe in a timetable, I opposed open ended blank check to George Bush. McCain is Bush! Bush is McCain!  Afghanistan is getting worse! Harping on Afghanistan, dilating time and events in two wars. I want a timeline! We’ll get out in 16 months! We’ll go back to Afghanistan to kill and crush Binladen!

McCain — [repeated Obama interruption] Specific date undermines success. Obama would have us out last spring before surge even started. Obama’s pullout plan will make things more complicated and dangerous in the region.

1951: Obama — surge in Iraq was bad, but gee we need one in Afghanistan. I’ll send 2-3 additional brigades [?] to Afghanistan. Kos talking points about Iraq being no threat.  “Al Qaeda is greatest threat against United States.” Afghan government needs to be working for its people, deal with poppy trade. Focus on Pockyston and get them to go after the Tallyban.

McCain — shouldn’t ignore the Tallyban, learn lessons of abandoning a place like we did after Soviet pullout from Afghanistan. Not military strikes into Pakistan, don’t say that out loud like he did, you work with the Pakistani government and the people, get them on your side. The area in question isn’t under control of anyone, not since Alexander. Need a surge-like strategy to attain control and allegiance of people in this area. Need their cooperation. Bombing of Marriott hotel was a signal to the Pakistani gov’t not to work with us, we need to work harder to get Pakistani on our side.  I guarantee you I would not publicly state that I would attack them.

Obama — I never said publicly I would attack Pakistan. I said if we had OBL in our sights and Pakistan wouldn’t do anything, we’d do it ourselves. References Bomb Iran song. More Kos talking points. [lame - beneath the event's dignity]. We coddled Musharraf, as ‘our bastard’, Pakistan did nothing. That’s going to change when I’m President [no saying how, just that it will, trust him]

McCain — forge that Bomb Iran crap, let me tell you about my record on use of military and failed states. Pakistan was a failed state when Musharraf took over, stopped it from getting worse. I was against us going into Lebanon, I was against going into Somalia. I was for Kosovo and Bosnia even though GOP Senators didn’t like it. I have record of being involved in these issues. Make sure soldiers’ deaths weren’t in vain by making sure we succeed.

Obama — I have a bracelet too from…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…somebody or other, who asked me to make sure no other soldiers die, period. Are we making good judgments about how to keep America safe? [hitting judgment theme] More talking points about taking eye off the ball. It’s not true you’ve been consistent about your concern about what happens in Afghanistan. You don’t muddle through getting OBL and stamping out the Tollybun.

McCain — You’d think with all Obama’s concern that he’d actually have GONE to Afghanistan and Iraq [zing!!!].  If we adopt his set date for withdrawal it will be calamitous for us and the region.

2003: Lehrer gets sucked up to by Obama. What about Iran?

McCain — can’t allow a second Holocaust. Russians preventing significant action in UNSC. Proposed a council of democracies to act via sanctions and other measures. Iranians have lousy gov’t so they have a lousy economy [watch Obama turn this around on Bush...].  Iranians are on road to nuclear capability, are fomenting violence in Iraq against us. Work with friends and allies to reduce this threat.

Obama — Republican Guard is a terrorist organization. I opposed bill labeling them such because it would widen authority to fight them in Iraq. uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… Obviously our policy in last 8 years hasn’t work. We cannot tolerate nuclear Iran. It would threaten Israel, and trigger arms race in Middle East. Need tougher sanctions. Unlike McCain I think we can’t do this without China and Russia, which aren’t democracies but trade with Iran. Bush isolation policy is bad. McCain is Bush!!!

McCain — Obama would sit down with Achdmswoioeoiiodojnasdnkljsdlvvjad, Chavez, and Castro without conditions. Obama wants to give legitimacy to Achmedijgineitnwicihchahgkkjedhajad by sitting down with him. Look, all the great diplomatic breakthroughs of the cold war came with preconditions (Reagan, Nixon, etc.)

Obama — Achmedinejad…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…might not be the right guy to even talk to. I will as president reserve right to talk to anyone. Kissenger is one of McCain’s advisors and just said without preconditions. Doesn’t mean you invite them for tea [okay that's funny], it means you don’t tell them do what we say first before we talk to you. [not making much of a distinction here]. Cut off talks to NK, they went nuke as a result, but when Bush administration reversed course and reengaged we made progress (which is admittedly tanking now) [Obama has no clue that NK cheats and retreats as consistent policy]. McCain won’t even meet with Spanish PM!

McCain — I won’t plan my meetings as president here and now, I don’t even have a seal yet [zing!!!]. Jeez, man, if you sit down with a madman like Achmedinejad who says he wants to destroy Israel you legitimize him and those statements.

Obama — without preconditions doesn’t mean without making preparations and the like [weasel]…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… We won’t do that!

McCain — Kissinger would be interested to hear Obama’s take on his views. Obama is parsing words.

2017: Obama — Uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…Russia policy needs to be uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…overhauled or something. Controlling nuclear proliferation of loose nuclear weapons is something I’ve lead on in the Senate.

McCain: Obama was naive when he said both Russia and Georgia equally need to stop when Georgia was victim of agression. l looked into Putin’s eyes, and saw three letters: K – G – B. Russia’s aggression on Georgia was about oil and pipeline. FSU states are concerned about a revanchist Russia [my words]. We want to work with the Russians, but we have every right to expect the Russians to respect international norms of behavior. Watch Ukraine, this has a lot to do with Ukraine in the future, Black Sea port at Sevastopol.

Obama — he and I agree for most part on these issues. I…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…disagree that we should have been more…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…forceful. I called to rebuild the Georgian economy with a billion-dollar bailout [!!!!] to stabilize the country and Saakashvili’s rule. I’m a messiah and prophet, so of course I predicted a year ago that this would happen and that we needed international peacekeepers there. Need a better energy policy. Need offshore drilling, yes, but we can’t drill our way out of the problem [cliche], we need solar, wind, biodiesel, yes nuclear, clean coal, make big government investment in all of that. Only 3% of world’s oil supply here, so it won’t make any difference. Climate change bone tossed in at the end.

McCain – Obama says he’s for nuclear, but opposes both reprocessing and storage of spent fuel. Drilling offshore and elsewhere here will help temporarily, however small the amount, to buy time.

Obama — “I’ve never said I was opposed to nuclear waste.”

2026: Likelihood of another 9/11?

McCain — less than it was on 9/12. Lieberman and I proposed 9/11 commission to investigate the failures and recommend improvements. Bipartisan. Across-the-aisle-reachy. Mavericky. Against torture. Need better electronic and human intelligency. Work with allies. America is safer today than it was on 9/11. 9/11 commission prompted largest reorganization of federal government probably since defense department formed.

Obama — still have a long way to go. Harden chemical sites. Need work on transit and ports. Biggest threat we face now is not a nuclear missile in the skies but a suitcase nuke. Proliferation to terrorists is biggest threat. Blowing billions on missile defense. Oh, but we need missile defense! Not against it! We need same level of funding on nonproliferation. Need to get to root cause of terrorism. Way we are perceived in world is going to affect help we get in opposing terrorism. We are less respected than we were 8 years ago or 4 years ago [pick one!]. America’s great! But we need to work to restore our reputation.

McCain — Obama said we need missile defense to be “proven” first before doing anything about it. Dilatory.  Same thinking elsewhere in his foreign policy.

Obama — Uuhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…this administration, along with McCain, have been solely focused on Iraq. What about China we’re borrowing a trillion dollars of our debt from. They’re involved all over, their presence is especially conspicuous by our absence. Uuhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm… we’ve not done anything else because of our focus on Iraq. We are spending money on Iraq instead of health care and welfare for our own people. We’re screwing veterans. Nobody is talking about losing this war [except Obama's nutroots base].

McCain — Obama stubbornly stuck to opinion that surge wasn’t working. He and friends complain about inflexibility of Bush but look at him not admitting he was wrong on the surge. Serious comments about challenges. I don’t need on the job training.

Obama – Uuhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…my father came from Kenya. That’s where I get my name. [no kidding? I though it was Norwegian!] We need to send a message to the world that we’re going to invest in education and invest in their ability to live their…uhm…um…ah…ahh…umm…uhh…umm…dreams. Or something.

McCain — I worked after my release from Vietnam to get other prisoners released, then to normalize relations.  I know how to heal the wounds of war, I know how to deal with our adversaries.

Abrupt end. Wives on stage. Whoa, is that Cindy McCain or Cylon Number Six??? Michelle looks like an autumn forest vomited on her dress. Fox commenters now chatting about who won, who lost.

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